4mm & 7mm Llanfair
- Thread starter LarryG
- Start date
sjp23480
Active Member
Or forced perspective - O gauge in the front, OO at the back - now that could be interesting!
Stephen Freeman
Western Thunderer
Not a new solution but one above the other, with suitable head room
Flaxfield
Western Thunderer
76043
Western Thunderer
Thanks Rob and Alan,
On Dublingham I used acrylic grab adhesive without solvent because I was gluing directly to blue foam. Now I have cork I'm thinking the same or PVA. The track on Dublingham is impossible to shift as I tried it once.
To be honest I'm not massively fussed about removal, so interested to know the rationale for it. I generally aim to get it right first time if that's the issue? Or is reuse the issue?
Cheers
Tony
On Dublingham I used acrylic grab adhesive without solvent because I was gluing directly to blue foam. Now I have cork I'm thinking the same or PVA. The track on Dublingham is impossible to shift as I tried it once.
To be honest I'm not massively fussed about removal, so interested to know the rationale for it. I generally aim to get it right first time if that's the issue? Or is reuse the issue?
Cheers
Tony
jonte
Western Thunderer
From memory, Tony, PVa has acoustic issues which amplify the sound of wheels on track which is why I’m opting for pinning the track to underlay, glued down with this adhesive recommended for the purpose:
It’s essentially Evo-stick in gel form.
When it comes to ballasting, I’m going with Alan’s recommendation of using Copydex, commensurate with the purpose of sound deadening.
Of course, if noisy running isn’t an issue e.g. small, diorama type layout, I suppose PVa’s a viable option.
Jon
It’s essentially Evo-stick in gel form.
When it comes to ballasting, I’m going with Alan’s recommendation of using Copydex, commensurate with the purpose of sound deadening.
Of course, if noisy running isn’t an issue e.g. small, diorama type layout, I suppose PVa’s a viable option.
Jon
simond
Western Thunderer
Jon,
I would say that chemistry (of the glue) isn’t the issue, but physics..
the noise issue arises when a flexible (part of the) baseboard resonates due to the vibrations arising from the model. This resonance, like the soundboard of a musical instrument, amplifies the noise. This implies that there is a physical connection between the track and the baseboard, which could be a rigid glue, or mechanical fixings like screws or pins. If the track is glued to a flexible layer, which itself is glued to the baseboard, with no mechanical connection between track and board, the hope is that the vibrations from the model are largely absorbed in the underlay.
PVA which does dry to a fairly rigid solid is likely to transmit the vibration to the top of the underlay. It may also soak into the underlay, and thus turn that into a rigid layer which may meet the scenic objectives, but offers no sound deadening or vibration barrier. This would also be the case, of course, if the layout were ballasted, and the glue and ballast form a rigid concrete-like, vibration-conducting path to the boards.
Contact glues tend to stay as thin layers, which probably work well in this context, but are probably not ideal if ballast will be added.
Latex glues stay flexible, and probably offer the best compromise for gluing track and ballast, but only if the underlay is a closed cell foam, if it’s open cell, it will soak it up like a sponge. I doubt that cork has any significant sound deadening effect, and of course, stiff non-resonating baseboards will help too.
Another observation, Latex doesn’t turn granite ballast green, PVA does, that’s chemistry!
Hth
Simon
I would say that chemistry (of the glue) isn’t the issue, but physics..
the noise issue arises when a flexible (part of the) baseboard resonates due to the vibrations arising from the model. This resonance, like the soundboard of a musical instrument, amplifies the noise. This implies that there is a physical connection between the track and the baseboard, which could be a rigid glue, or mechanical fixings like screws or pins. If the track is glued to a flexible layer, which itself is glued to the baseboard, with no mechanical connection between track and board, the hope is that the vibrations from the model are largely absorbed in the underlay.
PVA which does dry to a fairly rigid solid is likely to transmit the vibration to the top of the underlay. It may also soak into the underlay, and thus turn that into a rigid layer which may meet the scenic objectives, but offers no sound deadening or vibration barrier. This would also be the case, of course, if the layout were ballasted, and the glue and ballast form a rigid concrete-like, vibration-conducting path to the boards.
Contact glues tend to stay as thin layers, which probably work well in this context, but are probably not ideal if ballast will be added.
Latex glues stay flexible, and probably offer the best compromise for gluing track and ballast, but only if the underlay is a closed cell foam, if it’s open cell, it will soak it up like a sponge. I doubt that cork has any significant sound deadening effect, and of course, stiff non-resonating baseboards will help too.
Another observation, Latex doesn’t turn granite ballast green, PVA does, that’s chemistry!
Hth
Simon
LarryG
Western Thunderer
To answer the question, I always used neat PVA to glue track and ballast down in one go. Noise is there of course, but I prefer the simplicity of track laying straight onto cork to faffing about with flexible rubber and whatnot. I know that two layer of 1/8" cork makes for less noise, having seen it used on a friends layout.
As for my layout, the track is jointed awaiting gluing down and has been for a while, but my interest lies well away from model railways at the mo.
All the 0 gauge has been sold except for a brick goods shed (painted) and a Dapol BR lined green 14xx (superbly smooth runner).
As for my layout, the track is jointed awaiting gluing down and has been for a while, but my interest lies well away from model railways at the mo.
All the 0 gauge has been sold except for a brick goods shed (painted) and a Dapol BR lined green 14xx (superbly smooth runner).
jonte
Western Thunderer
Thanks,Simon
I’m a great admirer of all things physics.
In fact, there’s an evening with one on at my local next week which I’m thinking of attending.
Jon
Mike Trice
Western Thunderer
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Everything will get glued down eventually. I set out to make a much wider goods yard while at the same time reducing most of the baseboards width. There's a general merchandise road with end loading beyond the goods shed. A coal siding and a carriage siding. Goods trains will be made up in the loop exactly as before using the lengthy back-shunt past the water tower. The space between the track is for signals where there is less chance of them being knocked about.
EDITED : All track work on the scenic board is Peco Streamline Code 75....
EDITED : All track work on the scenic board is Peco Streamline Code 75....
Last edited:
paulc
Western Thunderer
Good to hear that you're okay Larry . The track layout has fixed the sighting for the signal box and has opened up the whole layout , very nice .
LarryG
Western Thunderer
Station loop glued down first. The next section containing the remaining four points was masked off before neat PVA was spread...
Section after the 4" x 1" timbers and weights were removed and after vacuuming off the excess ballast...
The raised ground including the station platform is 12mm plywood. Edging slabs are 60thou plastikard. The lot will be covered in 1/8" cork sheet. The camera gives the impression the station covers ¾ of board, but it doesn't...
Section after the 4" x 1" timbers and weights were removed and after vacuuming off the excess ballast...
The raised ground including the station platform is 12mm plywood. Edging slabs are 60thou plastikard. The lot will be covered in 1/8" cork sheet. The camera gives the impression the station covers ¾ of board, but it doesn't...
LarryG
Western Thunderer
There was to have been a gentle 'S' from the station to the hole in the wall, but I'm now going for a dead straight section. The track is sprayed, but it can't be glued until the weather cools down. Thought was given to having a tunnel instead of a bridge, but I was surprised to find no grown-up tunnel portals in the Web...
Outside the shed with the lid removed. The holes were cut for 0 gauge so are a tad tall....
Outside the shed with the lid removed. The holes were cut for 0 gauge so are a tad tall....