Monks Ferry: a layout for the Grandchildren.

[jonte]

An interim report on track painting.

Having settled on the black/brown mix for the sleepers mentioned previously, the points (together with track sections for the station throat, station, sidings and engine shed, identified by their numbered labels) were painted in this mix.

I then settled on a dark brown base for the rails (Humbrol 172 ?) as the 173/8 I’ve used before wasn’t labelled on the rack fir some reason (perhaps they don’t make it anymore). However on opening, it was far too brown and nothing like the colour on the lid, so I reached for no. 98 (chocolate?) which was near enough on application.

Here’s a section of track sporting these base colours to sleepers and rails:




Once various washes have been applied it should look a little more interesting (hopefully), but I think I’m nearer the look in previous pictures.

I’ve decided for expediency to paint the sleepers and rails of the mainline track all in the black/brown colour and then just wash on some thinned paints of a suitable hue to the rails.

Slowly getting there.

jonte

 

[Oban27]

Hi Roja, and thank you for the benefit of your past experience with children and the hobby. It’s good to hear how children receive and enjoy it, and whether they grow into it or out of it as many shared experiences on line have shown.

I think your question about who the model is ultimately intended for is valid and one oft posed, mainly as a point of amusement within the household………..

Hand on heart, I can honestly state that this is a children’s train set in the traditional way: big layouts ain’t (usually) my thang, although I’m growing to like this one.
Indeed, I’m not really a railway modeller, despite building several (over the years) unfinished layouts; according to my ‘records’, I haven’t run a train since August 2021 when I tested a DCC 8F on a piece of short track! Prior to that I also ran a diesel (American) loco along a similarly short length of track, and prior to that, a ‘Percy’ model round a circular trainset I built fir my son more years ago than I care to remember (he never showed any interest after that).

In truth, a train set present as a child fascinated me and I became very fond of the hobby as I grew, mainly because it provided an opportunity for me to ‘make things’. I realise the trains were purely incidental. The fascination and enjoyment in making things continued and I suppose a railway provided an ideal excuse to just create, from woodworking to buildings, soldering to electrical etc. .

So I suppose I’m looking forward to seeing it running, but as I mentioned to Simon and Jan above, it’s intended ultimately as a Christmas present, thus I want it to be as complete as possible and a scene of ‘wonderment’ (if that’s even a word!).

Additionally, the colour light signals - apart from being reminiscent of Capital City railways in the chosen period- are similar to traffic lights, and with chikdren being familiar with red for stop, green fir go, will be quite apt fir the movement of ‘their’ trains me thinks, and reduce risks if ‘crashes’!

I think because I enjoy modelling, I just cant help adding the odd extra detail here ‘n’ there; it’s in my blood. However, the time frame is of tge essence here, so any ‘embellishments’ will be of the quick-fix sort. There simply isn’t the time to give it the detaik I would like.

And although the signals seem a complicated distraction, in truth, once I’ve decided a mode of construction, I can employ an order of assembly that represents a production line, thus it won’t take as long as it might appear, building several of the same components at a time to speed things up. Thinking takes longer!

Thanks again for your interest and advice.

Best,

Jon

Hi Jon,

I can see where you're coming from, to coin a phrase!

Personally I'd get something running, maybe with some basic embellishments, then at a later date refine them and add more until you're happy with what you've got. With my daughter, the original layout hadn't any signals, but at a later date I explained to her what they were and why they were needed, just the basics, and before long we were planning where, and what, signals were needed then we placed them. She soon became a very competent signalman (girl, person?) and driver! It was a good bonding experience too!

When her interest waned I had plans for the layout, but a change of scale put paid to that! What I would say is that it was a great experience for both of us, and I wouldn't swap it for anything! Keep plugging away, even when it seems you're taking 2 steps backwards (been there, got the t-shirt!) but the rewards are well woth it!

Roja

 

[jonte]

Hi again, Roja (@Oban27)

Flicking through the album earlier, I came across the following from 2019:

Looks like the memory isn’t what it was.

Jon

 

[jonte]

The (thin) wires I ordered for the signal lamps arrived in the afternoon post, and as the curiosity of whether I could make these fragile items work without melting them, well, there was only one way to find out……..

However, I’m pleased to report that even my hamfistedness with a wavering iron couldn’t destroy the victim I chose from a big bag of victims:



I didn’t hold back on the rough treatment either.

First, I wanted to see whether bending a wire through ninety degrees without the equivalent of a heat sink would squelch whatever was inside rendering it U/S (I really need to keep rear protrusions to a minimum to reduce the boxiness of the look, something akin to the real signals I’ve seen in photos). Thankfully it didn’t:



It’s the green wire I’m referring to in the above.

In the second case, I wanted to see if I could solder an L shaped feed wire to the cathode (red) as near to the bulb without wrecking it, again to reduce on protrusion. Success there too. Thankfully.

Now I know this is achievable I’m relieved.

This was a quick soldering job, but when it comes to the real thing, I’m going to created some sort of jig to hold everything neatly and orderly to ensure consistency and reduce heat application to a minimum.

Now tgat I’ve purchased the wire, I’ve discovered a reel of wiring that has several very thin wires inside, so experiments with that stuff will ensue to keep size inside/behind the signal to a minimum. Heat shrinks are a necessity, but I’m wondering whether painted on Maskol might take less room inside whilst providing insulation for the current?

I’ll also employ a common fir the cathodes of both red and green lamps to keep wiring to a minimum.

Thanks for your forbearance.

jonte

 

[adrian]

The (thin) wires I ordered for the signal lamps arrived in the afternoon post, and as the curiosity of whether I could make these fragile items work without melting them, well, there was only one way to find out……..

A good alternative source for thin wires are USB cables - an old mouse or similar just cut off the cable before throwing it away.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

A good alternative source for thin wires are USB cables - an old mouse or similar just cut off the cable before throwing it away.

I use 0.5mm dia/AWG36 cable for LEDs in my modelling (with a 12v DC supply) and use 1K ohm or higher resistors - depending LED forward voltage - rather than the supplied or recommended resistors to reduce the LED brightness.

 

[jonte]

A good alternative source for thin wires are USB cables - an old mouse or similar just cut off the cable before throwing it away.

I believe so, Adrian; unfortunately I disposed of all my old tech stuff quite some time ago, although there wasn’t much of it.

My brother in law was in touch yesterday (he’s a scratch builder of wooden boats) offering me some bits n bobs he’s no longer a use for after downsizing, which he’s sending via courier. Thinking on, he’s also interested in tech, so I might enquire along those lines. Perhaps he could include something along those lines in the despatch?

Many thanks.

Jon

 

[jonte]

I use 0.5mm dia/AWG36 cable for LEDs in my modelling (with a 12v DC supply) and use 1K ohm or higher resistors - depending LED forward voltage - rather than the supplied or recommended resistors to reduce the LED brightness.

Thanks, Dave.

They are rather bright, if this one’s anything to go by, but the resistors are indeed 1k.

I think for this light hearted project, they’ll do.

Thanks anyway.

Jon

 

[simond]

Thanks, Dave.

They are rather bright, if this one’s anything to go by, but the resistors are indeed 1k.

I think for this light hearted project, they’ll do.

Thanks anyway.

Jon

Jon,

Try putting two resistors in series. If you like the result, you can buy 0.125W 2.2kOhm resistors at 14.5 p each, though I am sure there are cheaper sources than RS

RS PRO 2.2kΩ Carbon Film Resistor 0.25W ±5% | RS

uk.rs-online.com

bedt
Simon

 

[jonte]

Jon,

Try putting two resistors in series. If you like the result, you can buy 0.125W 2.2kOhm resistors at 14.5 p each, though I am sure there are cheaper sources than RS

RS PRO 2.2kΩ Carbon Film Resistor 0.25W ±5% | RS

uk.rs-online.com

bedt
Simon

Thanks for that, Simon.

Jon

 

[jonte]

Well, medical history precludes my pending op, so further treatment will continue as before. At least there wil be some temporary relief.

The good news is that weeks of expected immobility of my right arm with an accompanying hiatus in modelling, will no longer pose a threat; the only threat remaining is my severe lack of modelling skills. But at least now I can try.

So, with an idea in mind for a jig with which to create some order to wiring these incredibly fragile bulbs which lie in close proximity, I grabbed a drill, a series of drill bits in increasing incremental size and an offcut of wood I keep for such occasions.

Marking as accurately as I could with the only tool I could think of (a sharpened pencil), I began drilling. In the end, I ended up using a 4 milli drill bit deep enough to ensure tge ends of the bulb were flush, and sloppy enough that I wouldn’t end up pulling out the wires when trying to remove them:



So the idea is that I’m intending to use the excess wire of the resistors as a common for the cathodes:



I’m going to make it longer so as to form a rail fir ease of wiring:



So that’s the idea. Will have to wait ‘n’ see if it works.

Oh btw, here’s some thinner wire I discovered in the garage and which I made mention of last time:



Probably not as thin as computer accessory sources, but thinner than the not so thin stuff (0.2) I bought fir the job.

I also attempted to remove the rear compartment or shoulder of the lens frontispiece to reduce protrusion, first by removing the excess with a piercing saw, then popping it into a hole in a wood offcut to finish off with an emery board. You can see the shoulder on the piece to the left, and the finished product to the right:



Will it all end in tears?

jonte

 

[Roger Pound]

Will it all end in tears?

jonte

Whilst it isn't the sort of thing I would attempt, I have every confidence that your persistence will result in success.

Roger

 

[jonte]

Theory and practice seldom make for good bedfellows, and on this occasion the saying rings true once more.

First, the jig didn’t hold the bulbs tightly enough although any tighter made it difficult to remove them. Aligning two bulbs in this way was fraught, so the alternative was just to work on one at a time:



In an effort to keep soldered parts to a minimum width, I exposed the copper wires inside tge plastic sheath and then separated them to gain a thinner shaft, removing the excess wires before tinnning:



Then it was back to bending the wires of the bulb at the point where they emerged from the bulb lens as before, before placing them in one of the jig’s holes. As before, I soldered the wires as near to the bulb holding the hot iron in position for no more than a couple of seconds (recommendations are for no longer than four).

Wires attached, the bulb was removed from the jig and the excess cathode/anode wires removed.

This created a nice close fit:



Problem was, it didn’t work, despite trying different resistors. Connections were good as checked with a meter.

Perhaps I just got lucky with my first attempt.

The next time I return to the bench I’ll still bend the wires as they come out of the lens to keep protrusions to a minimum, but I’ll solder further away from the bulb. The longer cathode/anode wires won’t be a problem as I’ve elected to use shrink wrap after all, and have a batch of smaller diameter varieties on order.

Also, to reduce complexity, I’m opting for single lamps rather than double such that the wires can go straight down the brass tube of the signal stanchion. For twin lamps, the bends required in the wires (even though very fine) need determining and forming in advance and the relatively small area available to work in for these tiny signals is simply too fraught, with the risk of failures adding to the time taken to build.

So we carry on with a couple of valuable lessons learned.

Thanks, all, for your kind likes and interest.

jonte

 

[jonte]

I returned home earlier from visiting late afternoon to early evening, and following a spot of sustenance I was determined to resolve this calamity, armed with ideas ranging from using thicker wire and another new resistor to………well, that was all I could come up with.

Anyway, I started by removing the resistor from the apparent failure and returned it to the original green bulb set up that worked, just in case the resistor was faulty- a shot in the dark. As usual, I then used the meter to test that the joint wasn’t dry. To my surprise, the green lamp lit up powered by the meter. For what it was worth, I did the same fir tge faulty red bulb, and to my surprise, it lit! Even without the resistor!

Heartened, I soldered a resistor onto the red bulb cathode once more and connected it to the 12V supply. Success!




Perhaps I hadn’t connected the wires of the bulb to the Jack plugs of the 12V feed properly?

Dunno!

I’m just much relieved and satisfied that the method works. That’ll do fir me

jonte

 

[John57sharp]

Lots of good news there Jon. I think the lights will really add to your layout. My old HD one -also built by Grandad - had HD ones integrated with the points and it was splendid having the aspects change with the points when you threw a lever.

Hope your medical stuff pans out ok too.

John

 

[Roger Pound]

Good stuff, old friend - I told you persistance would pay!

Roger

 

[jonte]

Lots of good news there Jon. I think the lights will really add to your layout. My old HD one -also built by Grandad - had HD ones integrated with the points and it was splendid having the aspects change with the points when you threw a lever.

Hope your medical stuff pans out ok too.

John

Many thanks for your kind concern and interest once more, John.

The possible consequences weren’t worth the risk as it transpired. It would only have resolved part of the problem in any case, despite best intentions.

Your grandad was a modeller of a standard far beyond mine, but if it can leave an nth of the impression on my own grandchildren as it did on you, then it will have been well worth the effort.

I was watching a video recently about a chap from overseas doing precisely what your grandad achieved with mention of linked operation of points n signals. He used Tortoise motors which make the whole thing a little more straight forward than at a time when your grandad was mastering it. You can also purchase accessories that do the same using Peco solenoids as I’ve used, but as they only ‘do’ four at a time, the outlay for 22(?) would upset the domestic authorities somewhat….……

In any case, John, I don’t think I could find space on each point for more wires

Many thanks for your continued interest.

Jon

 

[jonte]

Good stuff, old friend - I told you persistance would pay!

Roger

I try and go the extra mile, my good friend, so I don’t let you down.

I think I’d be saving up for more second hand Hornby Dublos like the two I’ve collected without your faith in me

Your encouragement is always welcome.

Best wishes, Roger.

Jon

 

[jonte]

A footnote to the lamp puzzle: I’ve realised that it’s essential to get the positive negative feeds the right way round.

I recall something along these lines contained in an online video by Heathcote Electronics.

jonte

 

[simond]

LED...

Light Emitting Diode...