SimonD’s workbench

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
Lawrence

Part of what I said was the robustness of FDM, agreed in some cases detail can be better in resin, but FDM can be less brittle and more robust

3D printing in both methods has moved on a great deal in recent years as has the understanding of getting better and better results from using modified settings in design methods, let alone in advances in machinery and materials. The gap is closing quickly

John
 

simond

Western Thunderer
My conclusions so far are:

* that FDM is probably not ideal for iron wagons but seems pretty good for wooden ones. It’s certainly less brittle, and less smelly.

* that whatever the subject, you’re probably going to draw it differently/split it up differently/ put it together differently depending on means of making it.

* it‘s worthwhile discussing stuff like this, ideas, hints suggestions and advice are very welcome.

more soon…
Simon
 

Lawrence Boul

Western Thunderer
My conclusions so far are:

* that FDM is probably not ideal for iron wagons but seems pretty good for wooden ones. It’s certainly less brittle, and less smelly.

* that whatever the subject, you’re probably going to draw it differently/split it up differently/ put it together differently depending on means of making it.

* it‘s worthwhile discussing stuff like this, ideas, hints suggestions and advice are very welcome.

more soon…
Simon
That's all true.

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on robustness is this discussion, and I wonder what people are doing with their models? Generally resins will not have the impact strength of moulded PS or thermoplastic it's true, but I've not found them to be particularly fragile. The question for me is not, 'is it more brittle than PS', but 'is it strong enough for my needs' - and it is.

It depends a lot on what resin you use. Phrozen, for example, have an RPG (role playing games) resin intended for miniatures where you can drop figures on the floor and expect things like swords to survive. Henkel make a high impact functional resin, and there are elastomeric types as well. Much of my printing is for investment casting, and you can get resins offering clean burnout. The resin I use for models is an engineering type that is more expensive than the run of the mill, but performs better. ABS-like seems to be a popular choice for the sort of thing we do, though I have not used it.

FDM does produce parts that are dimensionally stable and flat. Resin does too, but there is more to achieving that. There are certainly uses where thermoplastic material is the better choice.

The points about space, and general unfriendliness are relative. If you are restricted to the kitchen table in a flat, then this is everything, but many posts here involve various machine tools that would also be incompatible with domestic bliss. You can cut wheel centres with a jeweller's saw. A pantograph mill is more regular, 5 axis CNC may be fantastic (I've not got either), but a cheap resin printer will produce beautiful sacrificial prints for excellent castings. The argument is not which is best, but which is appropriate.

Another consideration is whether you do it yourself or use a third party. Online suppliers can produce fabulous results on industrial machines that avoid all the perceived issues with resin. These 1:64 railcar bodies were done back in 2019, and the services have become better and cheaper since then. These were not expensive and the service was excellent.
Twinset_HLB4970.jpg

The EE Dg is from the late Terry Bradley in 1:24/1:64 from a Chinese supplier:
1000002724.jpg

If @simond wants a few iron opens, emailing the file to China is a viable solution avoiding the hassles of DIY in FDM or resin and can be done from the kitchen table. In larger scales/models or for multiples it's certainly worth considering.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Thanks Lawrence,

i could outsource it, but I’m having fun, so the advantages of doing so would not be without a downside!

I have not yet tried castings from my prints, that requires a definite “money where the mouth is” perspective. I’m also playing with images to send to the water cutter - that’ll be yet another learning curve.

cheers
Simon
 

Lawrence Boul

Western Thunderer
Thanks Lawrence,

i could outsource it, but I’m having fun, so the advantages of doing so would not be without a downside!

I have not yet tried castings from my prints, that requires a definite “money where the mouth is” perspective. I’m also playing with images to send to the water cutter - that’ll be yet another learning curve.

cheers
Simon
Which is entirely the point - it's a hobby, and we all do it differently.

One point about all this that is worth making is that I'm a professional at this (ie I sell things and do it full time - I wouldn't want to imply it's a living!). The principle of things like castings from prints is simple. The actual practice, learning curve and reality are quite different. Quite a few of these things (like resin printing) are marginal/difficult/expensive when one dabbles. It is a lot easier and more efficient with experience and volume. That's not to discourage you from trying, if you enjoy doing that.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I run a small manufacturing and engineering business, so I am well aware of the difference between “it can be done”, “I can do it”, “I have done it”, “I have repeated my initial success”, “I can do it reliably on demand” and “we’re ready to put this into production” :)

I shall soon retire. I have plans…
 

Hayfield1

Western Thunderer
I run a small manufacturing and engineering business, so I am well aware of the difference between “it can be done”, “I can do it”, “I have done it”, “I have repeated my initial success”, “I can do it reliably on demand” and “we’re ready to put this into production” :)

I shall soon retire. I have plans…
simond

Will you get your beloved desk as a retirement present
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Hi John, no, unfortunately.

my work desk is one of those fancy uppy-downy sit-stand things, (thanks @Osgood who put me onto it) and it’s far too snazzy for my replacement to pass up on.

I may purchase one for home use…

cheers
Simon
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Meanwhile, back at the physical workbench, a little progress on my mogul

image.jpg

There would have been a little more but I somehow destroyed the other CSB - I suspect I might have touched it with the electrode of the RSU and cooked it.

I fear I have run out of 0.5 piano wire - hopefully I can find some before Guildex!

image.jpg
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Are they sufficient in O gauge? what thickness are you using Adrian?

John
They seem to be, but I've only had limited time running with them - one of the reasons I need to sort something out to give the loco's a proper run rather than trundling up and down a short display plank.

The piano wire just seemed too thick and stiff suspension, the guitar wire just seems to give a more supple suspension. That's one of the beauties of CSB - it's so quick and easy to swop the wire over to test different thicknesses. For the guitar wires I think I used either 24 or 26 swg - basically the thickest ones I could find as a single wire, anything thicker seem to be nickel coiled over a thinner wire - great for vac pipes but not so good for CSB's.
 

Dave Holt

Western Thunderer
I'm no expert in CSBs, being more of a compensation man, but I'm a bit surprised at the amount of deflection, even without the weight of the body. Is there any further axle travel available with the body on?
Dave.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Dave,

my approach to CSBs has become a little cavalier. If the road holding is disappointing, I’ll simply move the fulcrum points with the RSU, and touch up the paint afterwards. It does only have one side in at the moment, and it may be that 0.8 would be better, but I used 0.5 on the Manor chassis I built for a pal, and it runs well.

best
Simon
 

Phil O

Western Thunderer
Meanwhile, back at the physical workbench, a little progress on my mogul

View attachment 267847

There would have been a little more but I somehow destroyed the other CSB - I suspect I might have touched it with the electrode of the RSU and cooked it.

I fear I have run out of 0.5 piano wire - hopefully I can find some before Guildex!

View attachment 267849

Simon,

There might be a trader at the Chatham show, next weekend that may have some. I'm making the terrible journey to visit on the Saturday.
 
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