Metropolitan Westinghouse OO Gauge

[Jarmstro]

Here we go again... Some say Metro-Cammell (Bill Simpson, A History of the Metropolitan Railway), some say Westinghouse. As far as I know they are the same locos. 10(?) built in 1906 before the ugly Thomas Houston's and more famous Met Bo-Bo's.







Another 3D print but this time it's so much better than the print I used for my Class G. I think it's termed SLA resin and it's excellent. In fact it's so good there is hardly any finishing necessary.

The motorised bogies are Tenshodo and I am genuinely astonished by their quality for the price. You even get weights included in the box and various options for fitment. They arrived just two week after I ordered them on eBay from Japan! So the loco will be 4WD! I'll now need to
decide how to mount them.

 

[Jarmstro]

Handrails fitted and my initial bogie mounting solution. It runs fine on my layout without the body fitted so we will see. Obviously there is a lot of modellers licence involved using these bogie but given the plastic body that's fine by me. Wheelbase and wheel diameter are almost certainly wrong. I'm not spending more time on it than it warrants. But if it ends up pulling coaches and resembling the actual loco I'll be happy.

Looking at every photo I have it looks like the whole thing was Met Midcar Red. Except the roof. This looks to me to have been grey, not black? Like the Bo-Bo's. I'd be very grateful if anyone could confirm my guess.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Tenshodo use 2mm axles. Depending upon your quest for accuracy you are you can buy replacement Tenshodo gears as spares and fit these to spoked wheelsets of the correct diameter on a 2mm axle. I've done this on several occasions and knurl the axle before fitting the gear secured with a drop of retaining compound.

 

[Jarmstro]

Tenshodo use 2mm axles. Depending upon your quest for accuracy you are you can buy replacement Tenshodo gears as spares and fit these to spoked wheelsets of the correct diameter on a 2mm axle. I've done this on several occasions and knurl the axle before fitting the gear secured with a drop of retaining compound.

All sold out. And the axles on mine are 1mm. But thanks. I'd like to buy more of these from Japan but it looks like I'm out of luck. At least at a reasonable price. This pair cost me just £50 delivered from Japan!

I realise that I am far from the standard set by most on this forum. My primary aim is to have a good working model which I can use on my layout which resembles the prototype to the best of my ability and which hasn't taken years of my life to build. And it's such good fun! It's not hard as long as you accept that it's not going to look like an RTR. But so what? I just can't understand why build-your-own is dying. K's had the right idea but never got it right. I am in the debt of Markits and Iain Rice who have given me so much.

Runs fine. Buffer beam detail and decals still to fit...(Oh, and a tension lock.)



EDIT. To ensure flawless running Ive found that is it necessary to link the two bogies in parallel.

 

[alastairq]

Excellent model.
Are you aware that Kato also did a self-powered truck....coreless motor & flywheel included? Something like a 28mm wheelbase.
I think they would be slightly more costly than the Tenshodo power trucks, however.
I bought a couple, for safe keeping, around 2010, from Hobby Search.....but sold them to a modeller on the Narrow Gauge forum..

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The Westinghouse looks the part.

Some say Metro-Cammell (Bill Simpson, A History of the Metropolitan Railway), some say Westinghouse. As far as I know they are the same locos. 10(?) built in 1906 before the ugly Thomas Houston's and more famous Met Bo-Bo's.

According to J Graeme Bruce in his book Steam to Silver the first ten were ordered from Westinghouse and built by Metropolitan Amalgamated Railway Carriage Company. They were of steeple cab design or camel backs. The second ten were ordered from the same car builder but had BTH electrical equipment and were of boxcab design.

The Met started to rebuild these twenty locomotives in 1919 with longer frames and new bogies but they suffered frame fractures so they ordered new locomotives from Metropolitan Vickers.

J Graeme Bruce (1913-2001) held a senior engineering position at London Transport.

And the axles on mine are 1mm. But thanks. I'd like to buy more of these from Japan but it looks like I'm out of luck. At least at a reasonable price.

Interesting, I'm surprised at the axle diameter. I've just checked a couple of Tenshodo motor bogies I have kicking around and the outer part of the axle is 1mm to fit in axleboxes but the main axle holding the wheels and gear is 2mm. I wouldn't understand why Tenshodo would change this unless there are mitigating circumstances.

Scalelink used to sell Tenshodo parts. Not sure if they are still trading as they are/were looking close certain parts the business and deal with specific ranges. Although their website is still active. Sundries = 00/H0 Motor-bogies & unpowered bogies - H0e & H0m motor-bogies.

 

[Jarmstro]

@Dave. Re the Tenshodo axle diameter. Ah!! Could well be. I just assumed the whole axle was 1mm and the bit sticking out was to cater for EM/P4. I just snipped it off and never looked at the rest of it. Re the Boxcab ( or Thomas Houston as some call them) I have a file for a 3D print and will have a go at one at some stage if I can get hold of more of these bogies. Wired together in parallel, my, my, they run sweet if a bit quick. This engine would give the best RTR a run for its money. EDIT: I've bought two more from Japan. A bit dearer but never mind. So the British Thomas Houston is under starters orders.

 

[robertm]

Hi,
I built a 7mm Wickham trolley powered by a Tenshodo Spud regauged to suit. It ran like a crippled centipede. I then found Mark Clark at Locolines,( borsig1958@gmail.com. ) He supplied a power bogie that was streets ahead of the regauged Spud. I would strongly recommend him if you need power units tailored to your project.
No connection etc etc just very happy with his work.
btw, if you want the Spud I discarded, complete with new worms and gears just pm me. It will cost you the postage.
Bob

 

[GreenAyre42]

Some say Metro-Cammell (Bill Simpson, A History of the Metropolitan Railway), some say Westinghouse.

I think you are fairly safe with Metro-Cammell as one appears, described as a Camel-Back, one of ten built by Metropolitan Amalgamated in 1905/6, on the front cover of 'Metro-Cammell, 150 years of Craftsmanship' by Keith Beddoes, Colin & Stephen Wheeler', Runpast Publishing 1999.
Unfortunately, the pic doesn't help with the colour.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Unfortunately, the pic doesn't help with the colour.

The nearest you are likely to get to the colour is on the preserved Met Tank no.23 in the LT Museum. At the time of repainting in 1963 for the 100 year Met celebrations it is likely there may have been ex-Metropolitan employees (albeit near retirement) working on the loco and may well have known the necessary pigments and quantities to mix the maroon. Therefore subsequents repaints will have been based on this sample.

A bit more difficult if no.23 was painted for the first time today, even if we knew the original paint formula there will be pigments which have since been banned.

 

[Fitzroy]

Hi,
I built a 7mm Wickham trolley powered by a Tenshodo Spud regauged to suit. It ran like a crippled centipede. I then found Mark Clark at Locolines,( borsig1958@gmail.com. ) He supplied a power bogie that was streets ahead of the regauged Spud. I would strongly recommend him if you need power units tailored to your project.
No connection etc etc just very happy with his work.
btw, if you want the Spud I discarded, complete with new worms and gears just pm me. It will cost you the postage.
Bob

A discarded spud full of worms? .....Hmmmmm.....

 

[Fitzroy]

I imagine colour would be pretty close to the almost contemporary Hornby Metro-Vicks. They would have made an effort to get the colour right.

 

[Jarmstro]

The nearest you are likely to get to the colour is on the preserved Met Tank no.23 in the LT Museum. At the time of repainting in 1963 for the 100 year Met celebrations it is likely there may have been ex-Metropolitan employees (albeit near retirement) working on the loco and may well have known the necessary pigments and quantities to mix the maroon. Therefore subsequents repaints will have been based on this sample.

A bit more difficult if no.23 was painted for the first time today, even if we knew the original paint formula there will be pigments which have since been banned.

My view on colour, and it's no more than an educated guess, is that the livery got lighter and lighter over the years until the Met was incorporated into LT. The LT red was clearly influenced by it. The tender invitations for the Class H specified the finish to be: "2 coats lead colour, 5 coats of filling, well stopped down and rubbed down, 2 coats lead colour, one coat Tuscan red, one coat Midcared, one coat of glaze, picked out, written and lined, and three coats best English copal varnish." Its the Midcared that's the mystery but I assume that its purpose was to lighten the Tuscan red which was the older liveries colour? I don't think that the Vauxhall Burgundy Red that I use is too far off the late 1920's period.

Incidentally, I've always wondered what the effect of UV light would have been on these old paints and varnishes?

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

My view on colour, and it's no more than an educated guess, is that the livery got lighter and lighter over the years until the Met was incorporated into LT. The LT red was clearly influenced by it.

Colour is very subjective and as individuals we all see colour slightly differently.

The question of colour crops up with the same regularity across modelling forums and in the end you have to go with what looks right to you under the lighting conditions you regularly use.

I've always wondered what the effect of UV light would have been on these old paints and varnishes?

Probably the same effect as today but with an increased concentration of reagents such as atmospheric pollution and acid rain - both due to the increased sulphur in the atmosphere at the time from coal fires and industrial pollution.

The LT red was clearly influenced by it.

No doubt for electric and steam locos. It would appear LT had three main reds at the time and it would have taken a while to repaint stock. There was Ayres red for buses, Train red for tube and surface stock (except T stock) and the Bullock maroon/red for electric and steam locos and service stock. Ayres (bus) red was brighter than train red.

As you may have deduced the Met and LT are one of my interests. My great grandfather worked on the Met and my grandmother's uncle and cousin also worked for LT, one initially on the Met (later Metropolitan Line) and the other (known jokingly in the family as 'the traitor') on the Bakerloo Line. I recall in the 1970s/80s there was a chalk inscription outside the door of the staff canteen at the north end of Wembley Park platforms which read 'Met Men Only'.

With my 7mm Met Bo-Bo I studied many photographs taking into account their exposure, lighting conditions, film type possibly used and their reproduction across various media. I always mix my colours in daylight which provides consistency across my models and knowing they will look different under artificial light due to colour temperature. In my case I started with Vallejo German Red-Brown surface primer and added red until it looked right to me and compared to photos.

 

[Jarmstro]

Colour is very subjective and as individuals we all see colour slightly differently.

The question of colour crops up with the same regularity across modelling forums and in the end you have to go with what looks right to you under the lighting conditions you regularly use.




Probably the same effect as today but with an increased concentration of reagents such as atmospheric pollution and acid rain - both due to the increased sulphur in the atmosphere at the time from coal fires and industrial pollution.



No doubt for electric and steam locos. It would appear LT had three main reds at the time and it would have taken a while to repaint stock. There was Ayres red for buses, Train red for tube and surface stock (except T stock) and the Bullock maroon/red for electric and steam locos and service stock. Ayres (bus) red was brighter than train red.

As you may have deduced the Met and LT are one of my interests. My great grandfather worked on the Met and my grandmother's uncle and cousin also worked for LT, one initially on the Met (later Metropolitan Line) and the other (known jokingly in the family as 'the traitor') on the Bakerloo Line. I recall in the 1970s/80s there was a chalk inscription outside the door of the staff canteen at the north end of Wembley Park platforms which read 'Met Men Only'.

With my 7mm Met Bo-Bo I studied many photographs taking into account their exposure, lighting conditions, film type possibly used and their reproduction across various media. I always mix my colours in daylight which provides consistency across my models and knowing they will look different under artificial light due to colour temperature. In my case I started with Vallejo German Red-Brown surface primer and added red until it looked right to me and compared to photos.

View attachment 267231

Dave. Your superb Bo-Bo looks absolutely spot on to me. As per the one on the right below at Rickmansworth.



For my part I got into the hobby quite late after her indoors bought me an engine driving course on the Bluebell Railway for my fortieth birthday. Then, because I was brought up in Chorleywood the Met piqued my interest but of course I never knew anything other than A stock and BR 115's for going to school in Watford or up to London. One of my abiding memories is the amazingly hard, scratchy and prickly upholstery on the 115's.! As a school kid in shorts it wasn't nice! What I just can't remember is how much a ticket was to Watford or Baker St? It must have been peanuts.

 

[paulc]

Colour is very subjective and as individuals we all see colour slightly differently.

The question of colour crops up with the same regularity across modelling forums and in the end you have to go with what looks right to you under the lighting conditions you regularly use.




Probably the same effect as today but with an increased concentration of reagents such as atmospheric pollution and acid rain - both due to the increased sulphur in the atmosphere at the time from coal fires and industrial pollution.



No doubt for electric and steam locos. It would appear LT had three main reds at the time and it would have taken a while to repaint stock. There was Ayres red for buses, Train red for tube and surface stock (except T stock) and the Bullock maroon/red for electric and steam locos and service stock. Ayres (bus) red was brighter than train red.

As you may have deduced the Met and LT are one of my interests. My great grandfather worked on the Met and my grandmother's uncle and cousin also worked for LT, one initially on the Met (later Metropolitan Line) and the other (known jokingly in the family as 'the traitor') on the Bakerloo Line. I recall in the 1970s/80s there was a chalk inscription outside the door of the staff canteen at the north end of Wembley Park platforms which read 'Met Men Only'.

With my 7mm Met Bo-Bo I studied many photographs taking into account their exposure, lighting conditions, film type possibly used and their reproduction across various media. I always mix my colours in daylight which provides consistency across my models and knowing they will look different under artificial light due to colour temperature. In my case I started with Vallejo German Red-Brown surface primer and added red until it looked right to me and compared to photos.

View attachment 267231

That model is a master class in restrained weathering .

 

[Jarmstro]

I know it's only my usual sub Lima style but I quite like it! Runs a treat and pulls my Chesham set no problem. On that subject did any of these survive beyond 1926 or were they all scrapped before the line to Amersham was electrified? I can't seem to find any information regarding their withdrawal? Ive ordered some darker grey for the roof which Ive already rubbed down and sorted.

 

[Jarmstro]

Two to go...

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

On that subject did any of these survive beyond 1926 or were they all scrapped before the line to Amersham was electrified? I can't seem to find any information regarding their withdrawal?

I agree, I've trawled all of my Met and LT books and any information is a bit vague when it comes to whether all of the Westinghouse and BTH locos were 'reconstructed' and withdrawal or scrapping dates. We do know one Westinghouse loco and one BTH loco were reconstructed in 1919 and after these two it was it was decided to construct twenty new locomotives. The BTH electrical equipment was removed and used in multiple units. Both the Westinghouse and BTH locos had gone by 1922/1923 once the Metropolitan Vickers locos were in service.

When I was researching the Met Bo-Bo for my 7mm model I did notice two different rivet patterns on the solebar depending upon the loco number which I think may indicate either a reconstructed or new chassis.

The line from Harrow to Watford and Rickmansworth was electrified in 1925, Rickmansworth to Amersham and Chesham in 1960-62.

Two to go...

Then onto the electric multiple units . 1913 stock, etc, etc

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Then, because I was brought up in Chorleywood the Met piqued my interest but of course I never knew anything other than A stock and BR 115's for going to school in Watford or up to London.

It's also worth taking a look at @oldravendale 's thread An Unusual Collection as it contains photographs of T and P stock on the Met taken around 1962 when the line was electrified to Amersham and Chesham. Plus other electric stock.