Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
Does anyone have a recommendation for a RTR steam loco that could be easily converted from 00 to P4? Preferably a Pre-Grouping one.
Marc
Marc
Easy RTR steam loco to convert to P4
- Thread starter Marc Dobson
- Start date
garethashenden
Western Thunderer
I don't have a specific recommendation, but I would suggest something with inside cylinders and no carrying wheels. An 0-6-0 tank engine would be simplest.
Alan Gibson has conversion sets for a lot of engines that have 3mm axles, instead of 1/8". One of those may be suitable. I
Alan Gibson has conversion sets for a lot of engines that have 3mm axles, instead of 1/8". One of those may be suitable. I
ullypug
Western Thunderer
The Bachmann pannier is an easy conversion as is the Collett Goods. I converted one of the latter to P4 last night with an Ultrascale drop in wheelset in under an hour. Have done a couple of the former.
Both might be a bit too late for you though.
What about a midland Jinty, half cab or NE J50?
Alan Gibson conversion packs are readily available. There’s a crib list here.
Ultrascale 6-9 months lead in or keep an eye on eBay.
Both might be a bit too late for you though.
What about a midland Jinty, half cab or NE J50?
Alan Gibson conversion packs are readily available. There’s a crib list here.
Ultrascale 6-9 months lead in or keep an eye on eBay.
Mancunian
Active Member
Brassmasters do a chassis kit for the Bachmann Midland 0-6-0T, but I dare say it could be done easier with AGW wheel sets
4800/17 Bachmann LMS Jinty 3 Axles 4' 7" 15 spoke - 3mm axles Price AV 4M42B, 4800
I think these are the same as those used by the Midland 0-6-0T. You might also need to buy a set of coupling rods, but I'm not sure of the wheel centres of the 0-6-0T, they might be (probably are) different from the 0-6-0 tender engines
4800/17 Bachmann LMS Jinty 3 Axles 4' 7" 15 spoke - 3mm axles Price AV 4M42B, 4800
I think these are the same as those used by the Midland 0-6-0T. You might also need to buy a set of coupling rods, but I'm not sure of the wheel centres of the 0-6-0T, they might be (probably are) different from the 0-6-0 tender engines
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jonte
Western Thunderer
This is my Bachmann Pannier (seen straight after soldering on the coupling rods, so no oiling or running in) after conversion with a set of Ultrascale P4 wheel sets:
I reused the Bachmann coupling rods which weren’t the best but still worked.
According to YouTube, this was ten years ago. Doesn’t time fly….
Jon
76043
Western Thunderer
Hi Jonte,
Can I ask if you have a 3 or 5 pole motor on your Pannier? I've been saddled (or panniered?!) with a three pole and it's just about acceptable.
Cheers
Tony
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Tony
I’m really not sure.
I’ll dig out the box if I can find it which should have the instructions inside and get back to you.
Cheers.
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Good morning Tony @76043
Further to your query of whether the motor concerned is 3 or 5 pole, regrettably I’m unable to enlighten you further despite a search or two on line.
Having traced the box (8750 Pannier Tank 9643 GWR Green Ref. No. 32-200) the schematic drawing accompanying, lists the motor as 300-004. As I say, a search on line has failed to further enlighten. I’d say at a guess it’s 3 pole, only because there are several results generated with mention of replacing Bachmann 3 pole motors with a 5 pole variant.
Sorry I can’t help further, Tony.
Best,
Jon
Further to your query of whether the motor concerned is 3 or 5 pole, regrettably I’m unable to enlighten you further despite a search or two on line.
Having traced the box (8750 Pannier Tank 9643 GWR Green Ref. No. 32-200) the schematic drawing accompanying, lists the motor as 300-004. As I say, a search on line has failed to further enlighten. I’d say at a guess it’s 3 pole, only because there are several results generated with mention of replacing Bachmann 3 pole motors with a 5 pole variant.
Sorry I can’t help further, Tony.
Best,
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
The short answer to that question is: no.
Ultrascale - last I heard they were winding down production- have nothing pre-grouping shown in their catalogue for Conversion packs (which come with ready assembled wheels on axles).
Alan Gibson might be your best port of call (http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/catalogue.pdf) although I wouldn’t class this option as ‘easy’ (ensuring wheels are truly vertical on axles; correct btbs; quartering etc.).
jonte
AJC
Western Thunderer
I'm reasonably sure that all Bachmann 8750s have 3 pole motors. Mine certainly does (and it must be over 20 years old now). It doesn't look impossible to replace with something better, but mine is good enough for it not to be a priority (unlike my Heljan class 14 which is scheduled to get a whole new chassis capable of proper slow-speed running).
Adam
76043
Western Thunderer
Thanks Jonte, no worries. I had replaced it for a while with an eBay sourced motor that fitted into the Bachmann system mount nicely, but the motor ran incredibly hot, so I put the original back in. It's fine as a layout runner as long as it doesn't stop anywhere. It has partially convinced me to stop converting RTR steam chassis and just build a proper chassis that shunts wagons properly. My 14xx build was the final nail in the coffin as it runs as smoothly as my Dublo locos. High Level gearboxes are clearly the only way in this respect.
I might even buy their Ruston 48DS chassis for my Hornby version, junk the rubbish chassis and keep the lovely body.
Tony
I might even buy their Ruston 48DS chassis for my Hornby version, junk the rubbish chassis and keep the lovely body.
Tony
jonte
Western Thunderer
Not sure what you think about the running of the model in the video, Tony @76043, but from memory I bought this as an apparent brand spanker from a popular online auction site. However, when it arrived, it appeared anything but. The box was worn, the wheels were filthy, there was bits of fluff and Lord knows what else hanging from the chassis and the motor was noisy as heck!
To be fair, the seller claimed he was selling it on behalf of an acquaintance who had assured him of its condition and had taken him at his word. To compensate, he returned half of the payment. Consequently, I cleaned the (original) wheels and chassis, and placed a light amount of synthetic oil on the moving parts of the motor before running it in on a circular section of track. It ran a lot more smoothly and quietly in comparison, so bit the bullet and changed the wheels.
It seemed to run better in one direction than the other, but whether this was due to the motor/gears or perhaps a tight spot on the rods, I didn’t investigate. It hasn’t seen the light of day since!.
Jon
To be fair, the seller claimed he was selling it on behalf of an acquaintance who had assured him of its condition and had taken him at his word. To compensate, he returned half of the payment. Consequently, I cleaned the (original) wheels and chassis, and placed a light amount of synthetic oil on the moving parts of the motor before running it in on a circular section of track. It ran a lot more smoothly and quietly in comparison, so bit the bullet and changed the wheels.
It seemed to run better in one direction than the other, but whether this was due to the motor/gears or perhaps a tight spot on the rods, I didn’t investigate. It hasn’t seen the light of day since!.
Jon
WM183
Western Thunderer
I built a new chassis for a Jinty with a high level chassis and Gibson wheels. It was quite an easy build, and the kit instructions and design make it nearly foolproof. If you dont want to wait for some Ultrascale drop in wheels, I'd heartily recommend High Level's chassis kits and gearboxes. I used an el Cheapo "Mitsumi" motor from ebay, 12v / 12000 RPM, I bought 10 of them for like 17 euros a while ago. Fine little motors.
EDIT - the Mitsumi motors have the same mounting pattern and thread size as Mashima motors, which are in short supply nowadays.
EDIT - the Mitsumi motors have the same mounting pattern and thread size as Mashima motors, which are in short supply nowadays.
jonte
Western Thunderer
Without the poster being more specific, including his dexterity with a soldering iron etc., we can only guess at what is meant by ‘easily converted’.
Taking the base level as drop-in wheel sets, I’m not sure any of us can be of any further assistance.
It would also help if the poster let us in on what he had in mind with regard to type of loco too. The most common option for me would be a Terrier, but until the poster responds, we remain in the dark.
jonte
Marc Dobson
Western Thunderer
Jonte,
To answer you question I'm pretty proficient but it's not my first choice of modelling task. I have built a High-level pug chassis and I'm part way through building a LNWR 0-4-0st (London road).
Marc
To answer you question I'm pretty proficient but it's not my first choice of modelling task. I have built a High-level pug chassis and I'm part way through building a LNWR 0-4-0st (London road).
Marc
Mancunian
Active Member
Sorry but this can be done by at least two methods that I know of; it wouldn't surprise me if there are others. One uses the GW Tools Wheelpress the other a drill press and a vice.
Method one:
Assuming the wheel has a raised centre boss (not all do) modify the GW tool to add two lengths of 0.5mm wire which will support the wheel tyre on two places per length of wire.
Add the wheel complete with crankpin and secure with drafting tape or similar
I have inadvertently covered one of the holes here; don't do this!
Do the same with the other half of the tool and press together. You will need a back to back gauge to know when to stop pressing!
The other method is to use a drill press:
In this method you assemble as above and press the axle into the wheel.
Both methods can get a little more sophisticated if you have a gear pinion/gearbox on the axle. Basically you will need to assemble the gear pinion/gearbox on the axle before you get this far.
That's it, quite simple, but there is a personal back story. Because of the issues of getting AGW wheels on the axles straight I was thinking very seriously before the lockdown of giving up on P4. And then during the lockdown I came up this idea. I logged on to one of the Zoom meetings, proud as punch over this, only to find that Alan Sibley had published an article yonks ago in MRJ. In that article Alan glued .020 strips of styrene in lieu of the .5mm wire I used but the principle is the same ie support the wheel rim.
Now I think this is pretty fundamental to using AGW driving wheels which most P4 modellers simply have to use, but you won't find it (AFAIK and I've looked) on the S4Soc's website or on the AGW website which is very strange.
Anyway enough of that, give it a go, it works.
jonte
Western Thunderer
Hi Mancunian and many thanks for sharing.
I have a GW wheel press myself.
Unfortunately, until Marc provided more info, your kind explanation could have been placed in the ‘too hard to do box’
Best,
Jon
jonte
Western Thunderer
Fair dinkum, Marc.
I think continuing with kit building might be the only solution unless you opt for say a method as outlined by @Mancunian, provided you’ve the wheel press
A drop in wheelset for the ( increasing) latest RTR pregrouping options would have been the best, but as you mention, even if available there’s usually around a six month wait from memory (?).
Jon
76043
Western Thunderer
When using the drill press method, what is your method for pressing the second wheel onto the same said axle?
Cheers
Tony
Mancunian
Active Member
For the case where there is two wheels and a plain axle:
Just press on one wheel, then the other and place them on the axle inside their final seating. Then use a three square Swiss file to etch the seating of the wheels and slide the wheels over the etching to lock them into place. Use gauge to get the correct back to back.
For the case where there is two wheels and a gear pinion:
Much the same really but arrange so the pinion is in between the two wheels. The pinion also needs for the axle to be etched on its seating.
The above will hold true for RTR conversions which is the subject of this thread, but for kit/scratchbuild construction you will need the extend the axles and shorten them afterwards, because of hornblocks, gearbox etc. Basically the GW Tools method is the best way to go, but I don't know the current status of the trader, I haven't seen him at shows for a very long time.