Dangerous Davies
Western Thunderer
Reminds me of Malcolm Uphill’s 100mph lap at the IOM in 1969 on a production Bonneville. Not bad for a pushrod twin with drum brakes.Things have improved over the last 57 years!
Hairy Bikers and Other Petrol Heads
- Thread starter Eastsidepilot
- Start date
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Well for a start it's a purpose built 8 valve engine and chassis.
Paton S1-R Lightweight - The road replica of the TT bike
The Paton S1-R Lightweight is a faithful road-going replica of the winning motorcycle used to race along the roads of the legendary Isle of Man TT.
paton.it
gwr 517
Member
Well, that explains a lot!Well for a start it's a purpose built 8 valve engine and chassis.
Paton S1-R Lightweight - The road replica of the TT bike
The Paton S1-R Lightweight is a faithful road-going replica of the winning motorcycle used to race along the roads of the legendary Isle of Man TT.
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Apparently he only just made it home, as when they stripped the engine after the race they found the pistons were cracked from the gudgeon pin bosses to the crowns !. He did win another race, the North West 200 in 1970 on a works Bonneville with a lap average of 106 mph, he had the choice of the Bonneville or the Trident and chose the former. Development had gone as far as Triumph were prepared to go with the Bonneville and from then all race development was with the 3 cyl. Trident.
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Last week my Metisse won best in category at the South Yorkshire White Rose Triumph Owner's Club show.
Then disaster struck, the bloody thing started burning oil. I bought a reconditioned Triumph TR6R '72 engine off the bloke who famously builds engines for the Rickman factory. Trouble is it turns out he's famous for only having an intermittent relationship with quality.
Going to lift the engine and get it re rebuilt by someone who knows what he's doing. Better build some more models to pay for it!
Then disaster struck, the bloody thing started burning oil. I bought a reconditioned Triumph TR6R '72 engine off the bloke who famously builds engines for the Rickman factory. Trouble is it turns out he's famous for only having an intermittent relationship with quality.
Going to lift the engine and get it re rebuilt by someone who knows what he's doing. Better build some more models to pay for it!
Attachments
Dangerous Davies
Western Thunderer
Time to look for a Nourish 8 valve top end as well Nick!
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Crikey no. It's quick enough already.
simond
Western Thunderer
Congrats on the win!
annoying to have the oil problem. Is it valve guides or rings? Head gasket or something worse?
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Wet sumping ?
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
It's the worse of all worlds. If I knew what was wrong I could fix it. Oil can only get into the engine down the valve guides or up through the bore.
I paid for a complete rebuild which clearly hasn't been done. I could take off the head and replace the valve guides and pull the cylinders and rebore/new pistons and rings. But have the mains and big ends been checked replaced? The crabk webs have a centripetal sludge trap, has it been cleaned out? Best to get the whole thing sorted out for piece of mind.
I paid for a complete rebuild which clearly hasn't been done. I could take off the head and replace the valve guides and pull the cylinders and rebore/new pistons and rings. But have the mains and big ends been checked replaced? The crabk webs have a centripetal sludge trap, has it been cleaned out? Best to get the whole thing sorted out for piece of mind.
paulc
Western Thunderer
Hi Nick , what does the receipt for your reconditioned engine tell you has been done ? Surely you have some recourse with that builder rather than have to pay for it to be rebuilt a second time .
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Hi Paul
I don't have a reciept, it was all done in good faith. He was recommended by one of the large classic Triumph parts suppliers and was the guy who built the engines for the company who were making RTR Rickman Metisses at the time, so I assumed he was good. He was adamant that everything would be reconditioned.
I bought the engine in 2022 and finally got a MSVA certificate for the finished bike last August. I had issues with the engine from the beginning, mainly oil leaks. The primary cover had blobby welds on the mating surface that had been flattened with what looked like an angle grinder. Oil was pissing out of both sides of the rocker shafts and out of the rocker gaskets. On investigation I spotted that the rocker box bolts were loose. Many irritating small things like this.
The engine did start and run well though. No rattles or bumps. Then a mate (classic bike mechanic here in S Yorkshire) was asked by a local dealer to come in and look at a Triumph X75 Hurricane replica they had for sale. The engine was a disaster, made out of random crankcases with locked up crank and all types of horrors. It had been assembled originally by the same builder of my engine. Alarm bells rang. Then I watched a bloke rebuilding a BSA R3 on YouTube. The engine was also a disaster area, same symptoms, miss matched crank cases and worse. Same builder! I heard so many horror stories about the builder that I lost confidence with the engine and decided to go for a rebuild.
The bloke has retired now, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near it anyway. I'll take the hit, I'm lucky I can afford it.
Parallels with modelling world eh.....
I don't have a reciept, it was all done in good faith. He was recommended by one of the large classic Triumph parts suppliers and was the guy who built the engines for the company who were making RTR Rickman Metisses at the time, so I assumed he was good. He was adamant that everything would be reconditioned.
I bought the engine in 2022 and finally got a MSVA certificate for the finished bike last August. I had issues with the engine from the beginning, mainly oil leaks. The primary cover had blobby welds on the mating surface that had been flattened with what looked like an angle grinder. Oil was pissing out of both sides of the rocker shafts and out of the rocker gaskets. On investigation I spotted that the rocker box bolts were loose. Many irritating small things like this.
The engine did start and run well though. No rattles or bumps. Then a mate (classic bike mechanic here in S Yorkshire) was asked by a local dealer to come in and look at a Triumph X75 Hurricane replica they had for sale. The engine was a disaster, made out of random crankcases with locked up crank and all types of horrors. It had been assembled originally by the same builder of my engine. Alarm bells rang. Then I watched a bloke rebuilding a BSA R3 on YouTube. The engine was also a disaster area, same symptoms, miss matched crank cases and worse. Same builder! I heard so many horror stories about the builder that I lost confidence with the engine and decided to go for a rebuild.
The bloke has retired now, and I wouldn't want him anywhere near it anyway. I'll take the hit, I'm lucky I can afford it.
Parallels with modelling world eh.....
SimonT
Western Thunderer
Nick,
there is a brilliant machine shop in Bawtry. They machined a Stag motor for me many years ago and are still in business doing some quality bits. Their machining and aluminium welding were top draw. Although they majored on car work, they did do bike motors. Otherwise South Cerney Engineering did a load of bike work for a mate and again were fantastic
there is a brilliant machine shop in Bawtry. They machined a Stag motor for me many years ago and are still in business doing some quality bits. Their machining and aluminium welding were top draw. Although they majored on car work, they did do bike motors. Otherwise South Cerney Engineering did a load of bike work for a mate and again were fantastic
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Hi Simon.
I had a Stag tor 9 years great car. I sold it when fuel hit 1.50/litre around 2010. It was cheaper to get a taxi than drive anywhere in it!
Didn't know about the place in Bawtry, quite nearby as well.
There are a few engine builders that specialise in classic Triumph twins and triples dotted around the country and it's going to one of those guys based in Coventry. When I rang round all of these guys had rebuilt a few engines originally done by the same builder as mine, and all had horror stories about badly assembled engines.
Unfortunately Simon I paid by BACS. Caveat emptor as they say.
I had a Stag tor 9 years great car. I sold it when fuel hit 1.50/litre around 2010. It was cheaper to get a taxi than drive anywhere in it!
Didn't know about the place in Bawtry, quite nearby as well.
There are a few engine builders that specialise in classic Triumph twins and triples dotted around the country and it's going to one of those guys based in Coventry. When I rang round all of these guys had rebuilt a few engines originally done by the same builder as mine, and all had horror stories about badly assembled engines.
Unfortunately Simon I paid by BACS. Caveat emptor as they say.
Nick Dunhill
Western Thunderer
Good Question.
I assumed (there's that word again) and was told that it would be a total strip down. Cases vapour blasted screws replated. Crank cleaned, including sludge trap, and bearing clearances checked and ground where necessary. Rebore, new pistons and rings. New valves and guides plus springs etc etc etc. To be fair some of this has been done, but I don't have the confidence that it all has. It's burning oil, so clearly it hasn't all been done.
I should have been suspicious when it came in at £2300.
I assumed (there's that word again) and was told that it would be a total strip down. Cases vapour blasted screws replated. Crank cleaned, including sludge trap, and bearing clearances checked and ground where necessary. Rebore, new pistons and rings. New valves and guides plus springs etc etc etc. To be fair some of this has been done, but I don't have the confidence that it all has. It's burning oil, so clearly it hasn't all been done.
I should have been suspicious when it came in at £2300.
