Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Graham. A momentary brain fart which caused my mis-naming of 4079... Now corrected by way of an edit.

Larry - that info is a great help. I've updated the location info but am wondering why a loco would be turned at Shrewsbury when it's going to/coming from either Birkenhead or Chester. In 1967 was Shrewsbury the nearest shed to either which still retained steam loco facilities? Also it'll be most helpful to know which of the photos is between Chester and Birkenhead. Does that apply to the fourth and the eighth image?

Your comments about the Taplow open day are much appreciated, @gateman 49 . I'll correct the record attached to the photos accordingly.

And Paul @hrmspaul . Your comments are very apposite. I've often questioned why I personally did not take more wagon photos. I think it was because my principal interest was the remaining steam locos and at the time I really had little interest in serious model making. I suspect that was true of most people photographing the railways at the time. In retrospect I very much regret that. As far as this recent set of photos is concerned I felt we'd seen plenty of pictures of 7029 and 4472 so decided to try to gather all those remaining and put them in a couple of posts. IMHO the upcoming photos are of the more mundane and therefore probably more interesting subjects.

Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Rebuilt Merchant Navy 35023 Holland-Afrika Line at West Weybridge on an unknown date. In January/February1960 the loco was allocated to Bournemouth and moved to Weymouth Radipole in September/October 1966. I suspect this photo was taken when the loco was allocated to Nine Elms, though, which dates it at some time after March/April 1967 – withdrawal followed at the end of Southern steam in July 1967. (SLS). The loco was in store at Nine Elms from July to September 1967 but seen in steam at Nine Elms in September (LCGB). It was despatched dead engine to Salisbury on 10th September 1967 (RO). It was further observed at Salisbury on 23rd December 1967 (LCGB) and seen again at Buttigieg’s, Newport on 10th April 1968 (RO). BR Database records a scrapping date of April 1968.




West Country 34042 Dorchester was rebuilt in January 1959 when allocated to Bournemouth where it had been since May/June 1956. It moved to Eastleigh in August/September 1964 and was withdrawn in October 1965. It was observed intact at Buttigieg’s, Newport on 6th April 1966 (RO) and 12th June 1966 (LCGB) and was then sen being cut up on 23rd September 1966 (RO). BR Database records a scrapping date of April 1966 but that seems unlikely.



Another photo with limited information. This is an original West Country or Battle of Britain It appears to be leaving Waterloo but the date is unknown.



Brian

 

[John Palmer]

The carriage in the background of img700 is indeed worthy of note, as it appears to be an elderly steel-panelled Toplight with rod trussed underframe mounted on fishbelly bogies - a Diagram C32 8-compartment Third? The adjacent Mink seems to be to the V14 design or one of that diagram's near-derivatives. Of about the same vintage as the Toplight, and by that time fast disappearing from the railway scene.

 

[Dog Star]

The Toplight might have started as a D32... no longer an 8 cmpt carriage given the arrangement of doors and windows just left of the RH end.

 

[Pete_S]

The carriage in the background of img700 is indeed worthy of note, as it appears to be an elderly steel-panelled Toplight with rod trussed underframe mounted on fishbelly bogies - a Diagram C32 8-compartment Third? The adjacent Mink seems to be to the V14 design or one of that diagram's near-derivatives. Of about the same vintage as the Toplight, and by that time fast disappearing from the railway scene.

It may have started life as a C32, but I'd hazard that its been Departmentalised & is spending its last days as a breakdown tender. The cab roof to the left of it looks rather steam crane-esque to my eye.

 

[simond]

It may have started life as a C32, but I'd hazard that its been Departmentalised & is spending its last days as a breakdown tender. The cab roof to the left of it looks rather steam crane-esque to my eye.

In the lower photos, there’s a gear wheel and the top of the jib, which rather confirms your cab roof hypothesis I think.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you John @John Palmer , Graham @Dog Star , Pete @Pete_S and Simon @simond for all that lovely stuff about the vehicles in the background of the photos of 7029 at Shrewsbury. Without this I'd have had no hope of identifying them.

I've also studied the head-on photo of the loco on the turntable and with the benefit of a fair amount of belief I think I can see evidence of a headboard. If so the loco could well be on "The Zulu" which would make much more sense of it turning at Salisbury.

For today we'll take one of our short diversions, so here are some traction engines - and I use the description as a generic term.

John Fowler & Co BB1 Steam Ploughing Engine 15226 of 1918 carrying Registration No NR77 and nicknamed “Tiny Tim”. The location and date is unknown. It was commonly paired with another Fowler engine, NR76, which was nicknamed “Old Jumbo”



This is a Wallis & Steevens general purpose single cylinder traction engine named “Wanda”. It was built in 1924, works No 7801 and carries Registration No PU3378.

Next to it is CF 3476, a 1915 Burrell Double Crank Compound traction engine named George. Works number 3636.



This is a 1922 Charles Burrell & Sons Traction Engine named "Jessie". It is a double crank compound engine with the works number 3923 and Reg No. EW3026. Note PU3378 (img482) in the background.



Hopefully I'll be lucky again and more details about each vehicle will follow.

Brian

 

[Dog Star]

And maybe someone can produce an event guide which includes the details of exhibits 15, 16 and 17... and hence a date and a location for the photos.

 

[Barry37]

Thank you John @John Palmer , Graham @Dog Star , Pete @Pete_S and Simon @simond for all that lovely stuff about the vehicles in the background of the photos of 7029 at Shrewsbury. Without this I'd have had no hope of identifying them.

I've also studied the head-on photo of the loco on the turntable and with the benefit of a fair amount of belief I think I can see evidence of a headboard. If so the loco could well be on "The Zulu" which would make much more sense of it turning at Salisbury.

For today we'll take one of our short diversions, so here are some traction engines - and I use the description as a generic term.

John Fowler & Co BB1 Steam Ploughing Engine 15226 of 1918 carrying Registration No NR77 and nicknamed “Tiny Tim”. The location and date is unknown. It was commonly paired with another Fowler engine, NR76, which was nicknamed “Old Jumbo”

View attachment 261755

This is a Wallis & Stevens general purpose single cylinder traction engine named “Wanda”. It was built in 1924, works No 7801 and carries Registration No PU3378.

Next to it is CF 3476, a 1915 Burrell Road Locomotive named Lord George.

View attachment 261756

This is a 1922 Charles Burrell & Sons Traction Engine named "Jessie". It is a double crank compound engine with the works number 3923 and Reg No. EW3026. Note PU3378 (img482) in the background.

View attachment 261757

Hopefully I'll be lucky again and more details about each vehicle will follow.

Brian

It's "Wallis & Steevens" – with a double E in Steevens, apparently. Saw a photo with the maker's plate.

 

[oldravendale]

And maybe someone can produce an event guide which includes the details of exhibits 15, 16 and 17... and hence a data and a location for the photos.

That's a really good thought, Graham @Dog Star . Perhaps all the traction engine enthusiasts would kindly get their programme collection out and check for me.


Barry @Barry37 - thanks for that info. Now changed by was of an edit.

Brian

 

[AndyB]

The trees are not yet in full leaf, so looks like early in the rally season - April / May. Late 1960's from the dress and hairstyles?

Burrell Reg CF 3476 is a Double Crank Compound traction engine, not a road loco - and has no pretentions of a peerage; it is named simply 'George'. Works number 3636.
In the early 1980's the 2 Burrells and the Wallis were all resident in the east of England - Saffron Walden, Chelmsford and Boston.
By this time, the pair of ploughing engines had joined the Norman Ball collection on the Isle of Wight (no info on when they went there), and sold again at auction in 1991. The 'NR' registrations are Leicestershire.

The Wallis appears to be suffering from 'red-spot-itis' on the ends of the axles, steering shaft, crankshaft, etc - but at least it hasn't spread to the wheel rivet heads as happened on some engines.

The engine in the background of img512 looks like a Fowler (from the shape of the number plate on the boiler side).

 

[hrmspaul]

It may have started life as a C32, but I'd hazard that its been Departmentalised & is spending its last days as a breakdown tender. The cab roof to the left of it looks rather steam crane-esque to my eye.

In the lower photos, there’s a gear wheel and the top of the jib, which rather confirms your cab roof hypothesis I think.

I mentioned there was a crane and the others were in breakdown train red - which was uniquely used for such stock, whether ex carriages or wagons either departmental or originally revenue.

Paul

 

[oldravendale]

Your confirmation of the info is much appreciated, Paul @hrmspaul .

The information about the previous post is just so helpful, @AndyB. Some of the info has been attached t the photos by way of an edit and anything not included is now attached to each of the photos. But I need more help....

This next set of photos is a real mixed bag but I believe of interest. However first is one that almost slipped through the net and should have appeared with the previous photos but it’s from the same set as those three so must be at the same rally. I’ll really appreciate your help with these, @AndyB as there’s nothing in this photo which helps me identify any of the engines.



A return here to Clapham Transport Museum at an unspecified date. First (img 489) is Midland Compound 1000. Details are here: 4P 41000 – 41044 MR Class 1000 4-4-0 Deeley & Johnson Compound



Then, img 490, is Furness Railway No 3 Coppernob. Details are here: 3 Coppernob 0-4-0 Furness Railway Class A2



An interesting study in shop fronts and roadside furniture is this shot of Stonegate, York, with The Punchbowl dating from 1675 although much rebuilt prominent on the right hand side. There is no date attributed to this photo but the vehicles may give us a clue – from the left I believe these are a Ford Cortina Mk 1, introduced in 1962, an Austin A40 Farina introduced 1958 and a Vauxhall Cresta PA introduced in 1957 and discontinued in 1962. (There may be others more qualified to confirm the vehicle identities). I’ll guess that this puts the picture in the mid 1960s.



Rebuilt Merchant Navy 35027 Port Line nearing Vauxhall and believed to be in 1964. This locomotive was a long term resident of Bournemouth Shed having been allocated there in May/June 1955 and being withdrawn in September 1966. It went to Woodhams, Barry for disposal in March 1967 and was purchased for preservation in December 1982. Between 1988 and 1996 it operated on Bluebell Railway. See 35027 Port Line and is currently probably still under restoration.



Brian

 

[Tim Birch]

The York photo is of Micklegate Bar (on Micklegate, the street rather than Stonegate). The traffic is coming from the direction of the railway station and heading round to go in the direction of the Knavesmire where the racecourse is the site for the splendid easter model railway show.

 

[AndyB]

I’ll really appreciate your help with these, @AndyB as there’s nothing in this photo which helps me identify any of the engines.

Not a lot to go on - not even a snippet of one registration plate!
The one nearest the camera is a Fowler and looks like a road locomotive, having belly tanks and a half-canopy, but has a spoked flywheel. If you can zoom in to make anything of the works plate it might narrow down the choice a bit.
Similarly for the nameplate on the third one along. and the writing on the canopies just behind.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you for trying, Andy. I've gone back to the original TIFF file but the works plate is regrettably unreadable - too much reflection and that's not the point of sharpest focus. However the third engine in the group is "Victory". None of the canopies can be seen in their entirety but I can see what is possibly "ALCONBUR" on the fifth and "BRAV" on the sixth.

Not terribly much to go on, sadly.

 

[hrmspaul]

The York photo is of Micklegate Bar (on Micklegate, the street rather than Stonegate). The traffic is coming from the direction of the railway station and heading round to go in the direction of the Knavesmire where the racecourse is the site for the splendid easter model railway show.

Well done, beat me to it!
This is the recent google map Google Maps

The Punchbowl remains, now owned by Weatherspoon. OK a marmite company but this does have several different environments in which to sample their products. On the other corner is an Italian restaurant Villaggio, which I have never used, and next to it Delrio, a Sardinian restaurant in the basement. Perhaps the best "Italian style" restaurant in York. It has a very upmarket furnishing shop, and an art gallery above.

Nowadays traffic can go from this Junction under the gate, but there is no return traffic (except cycles). As Google says a "notorious gate", where the heads of even monarchs have been displayed. Behind the photographer is the remarkably wide Blossom Street. Wide, not because of destruction of building but because the Romans built it as the main road from Eboracum to Londinium. As mentioned further out is the racecourse, now named the Mount and then Tadcaster Rd and once lined with Roman coffins and later the site of several gibbets. Yet to be found is the amphitheatre - a graveyard for gladiators was found a few years ago, between the Mount and the well known girls Mount private school.

There is much more to York than the fabulous train shed but many simply make Micklegate and do the Micklegate run, which has a lot of pubs before getting into the town city centre (I'm a southerner and although I love living in York it is only a good sized town with a Minster).

Paul

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

The York photo is of Micklegate Bar (on Micklegate, the street rather than Stonegate). The traffic is coming from the direction of the railway station and heading round to go in the direction of the Knavesmire where the racecourse is the site for the splendid easter model railway show.

Good to see the Punch Bowl when it was still a proper pub. It’s a Wetherspoons now.

 

[SimonT]

And just up Blossom St the much missed Brigantes. The land lord has yet to find anyone who will pay their inflated rent.

 

[simond]

I concur with the car makes and think the second one in the queue behind thevA40 is likely a Morris minor traveller, as Dame Edna had it “a half-timbered car”, but the first one, whose grille is visible through the windows of the A40 has me puzzling. I have the feeling that it’s another Vauxhall, though maybe a Ford, but in either case it’s white with a brown vinyl roof, which I think was a later fashion.

A quick check on Google suggests the vinyl roof fashion was led in 1967 by a couple of Ford 1600 models, although originally much older.