garethashenden
Western Thunderer
The Pennsylvania one and the two C&Os are GP9s, but the B&M one is a GP7. Aside from the paint scheme, the louvers are different. The GP7s were the last maroon engines the B&M got, the GP9s being the first blue ones.
7mm Richards P48 US Thread
- Thread starter richard carr
- Start date
richard carr
Western Thunderer
I also started converting some more boxcars
This is a Berwick Hi Cube boxcar in DT&I livery, it's just that there never were any, the DT&I had some similar boxcars but not these. It is a nice model and the brake ger is really good.
This one is a real one, I've even found a photo of this boxcar.
I'm also doing another Gunderson Hi Cube car, the green isn't as bright as my phone makes it look, thankfully.
And finally an old Atlas 50ft boxcar
This is a Berwick Hi Cube boxcar in DT&I livery, it's just that there never were any, the DT&I had some similar boxcars but not these. It is a nice model and the brake ger is really good.
This one is a real one, I've even found a photo of this boxcar.
I'm also doing another Gunderson Hi Cube car, the green isn't as bright as my phone makes it look, thankfully.
And finally an old Atlas 50ft boxcar
richard carr
Western Thunderer
and the last thing I started work on was this Overland GE C30-7 loco. This one is from 1992.
This is a Burlington Northern loco and will be in cascade green livery.
The lose piece of louvres in the above photo was easily fixed with a little bit of super glue.
This time I do intend to narrow the trucks by 1.5mm on each side. It will mean adding new pickups but that will be easy enough. The gear boxes were more free running than the SD70, even though these only have plain bearings.
This is a Burlington Northern loco and will be in cascade green livery.
The lose piece of louvres in the above photo was easily fixed with a little bit of super glue.
This time I do intend to narrow the trucks by 1.5mm on each side. It will mean adding new pickups but that will be easy enough. The gear boxes were more free running than the SD70, even though these only have plain bearings.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
We are all back from the March O Meet, it was certainly a fun weekend. There wasn't a lot of diesels for sale, in fact there were quite a few that i remember from last year.
Bill Davis did have some ACes in heritage liveries, a Western Pacific, a Katy and 2 Missouri Pacific. I did think about the Western Pacific and the Katy but by the time I was prepared to take the plunge someone else had bought them.
I di find this hiding in a pile of green boxes on another stand.
It's an SD75 from a 2005 run, it appears to be "new" in the sense it had never been run.
I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but hopefully it runs ok.
The other purchase was a SD9, in CB&Q livery
Caboose stop hobbies had it for sale along with a couple of other, someone else had a pair DMIR ones for sale.
I was also able to pickup those that I had pre ordered from Sunset a couple of years ago.
This one is numbered to be a refurbished SD9E, 4439 was one of the last ot be completed in 1980. It needs to lose the pilot steps and ideally I need to add a front plough, does anyone know of a source for one ?
Both of these have been converted to P48 with the drop in wheel sets available from Right O Way and run very well with a few tweaks to the Loksound decoder inside.
Bill Davis did have some ACes in heritage liveries, a Western Pacific, a Katy and 2 Missouri Pacific. I did think about the Western Pacific and the Katy but by the time I was prepared to take the plunge someone else had bought them.
I di find this hiding in a pile of green boxes on another stand.
It's an SD75 from a 2005 run, it appears to be "new" in the sense it had never been run.
I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but hopefully it runs ok.
The other purchase was a SD9, in CB&Q livery
Caboose stop hobbies had it for sale along with a couple of other, someone else had a pair DMIR ones for sale.
I was also able to pickup those that I had pre ordered from Sunset a couple of years ago.
This one is numbered to be a refurbished SD9E, 4439 was one of the last ot be completed in 1980. It needs to lose the pilot steps and ideally I need to add a front plough, does anyone know of a source for one ?
Both of these have been converted to P48 with the drop in wheel sets available from Right O Way and run very well with a few tweaks to the Loksound decoder inside.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
So last night I took a blow torch to my SP SD9s
In the photo beow 4439 has had the blow torch treatment 3925 hasn't.
So the steps on the pilot and the big bit in the middle have now gone, there are a few holes to fill and a bit of paint to apply, but by mid 1970 you were far more likely to find an SD9 running around looking like 4439 and nothing looking like 3925.
What it really needs of course is a plow ! anyone know where to get one from ?
They have both had the treatment now, and yes the Kadee coupling has fallen out, but that needs to come out anyway.
To convert them to P48 with drop in wheel sets it's a fairly easy job.
The first step is to take off one of the side frames, there are 4 screws you need to remove, I've taken them out of the right hand frame
You should be able to just ease the frame away.
Now you can take off all the gearbox covers
Then remove the wheel sets at either end of the truck, the centre wheel set will take a bit of forcing out, but it's not too hard.
Now you place the P48 wheel sets in place starting with the centre wheel set, you can re pack the grease and slide the side frame back on.
Then screw in the gearbox covers nice and tight, you will probably need to shape the pickups to make contact with the back of the wheels.
Thats then the job done.
In the photo beow 4439 has had the blow torch treatment 3925 hasn't.
So the steps on the pilot and the big bit in the middle have now gone, there are a few holes to fill and a bit of paint to apply, but by mid 1970 you were far more likely to find an SD9 running around looking like 4439 and nothing looking like 3925.
What it really needs of course is a plow ! anyone know where to get one from ?
They have both had the treatment now, and yes the Kadee coupling has fallen out, but that needs to come out anyway.
To convert them to P48 with drop in wheel sets it's a fairly easy job.
The first step is to take off one of the side frames, there are 4 screws you need to remove, I've taken them out of the right hand frame
You should be able to just ease the frame away.
Now you can take off all the gearbox covers
Then remove the wheel sets at either end of the truck, the centre wheel set will take a bit of forcing out, but it's not too hard.
Now you place the P48 wheel sets in place starting with the centre wheel set, you can re pack the grease and slide the side frame back on.
Then screw in the gearbox covers nice and tight, you will probably need to shape the pickups to make contact with the back of the wheels.
Thats then the job done.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Nice modes those SD9's, regret mode on I didn't pick some up....sigh.
Pedant mode; #3925 is a vanilla SD9 and #4439 is a SD9R a sub group of the SD9E not sure off the top of my head what the technical differences between the E and R were. Annoyingly I can't now find that source that detailed the difference, possibly Diesel Era.
Check out Des Plains they have a rash of O gauge plows but no pictures
item 235-12 1st/2nd gen hoods might do as well as 235-233 SP/CSX/CP/NS but no idea what gen or frame that's for.
Hint, icicle breakers would be a nice touch
Pedant mode; #3925 is a vanilla SD9 and #4439 is a SD9R a sub group of the SD9E not sure off the top of my head what the technical differences between the E and R were. Annoyingly I can't now find that source that detailed the difference, possibly Diesel Era.
Check out Des Plains they have a rash of O gauge plows but no pictures
item 235-12 1st/2nd gen hoods might do as well as 235-233 SP/CSX/CP/NS but no idea what gen or frame that's for.Hint, icicle breakers would be a nice touch
Yorkshire Dave
Western Thunderer
Check out Des Plains they have a rash of O gauge plows but no pictures
Just had a look and most of these are HO scale.
I don't think there are many O scale snow plows available. For my Dash 8 I made one up a new one from brass using the Atlas one as a template.
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Jordan or Plymouth Mad
Mid-Western Thunderer
I will check my spares box, I'm sure I have a big brass plow somewhere.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Hi Mick
I think the main difference between the SD9E and R versions was the air filter box, the Es have one and the Rs don't.
There may be other internal differences but nothing that's visible.
I'm going to need a few plows so I'm probably going to etch something. I also need to do a fitting to secure the Kadee to, as these stick out too much and its the wrong type of Kadee. I'm debating if it's better to etch it or print it ?
Richard
I think the main difference between the SD9E and R versions was the air filter box, the Es have one and the Rs don't.
There may be other internal differences but nothing that's visible.
I'm going to need a few plows so I'm probably going to etch something. I also need to do a fitting to secure the Kadee to, as these stick out too much and its the wrong type of Kadee. I'm debating if it's better to etch it or print it ?
Richard
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Doh (facepalm) I think you’re right even though I selected O gauge in the search it must have gone through the whole inventory,
I’m sure PSC used to do them in their catalogue as brass castings, but I checked last night and it appears they no longer do or I was mistaken?
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Richard,
Info was thin on the ground on last nights web browsing and it was along day..... I’ve got a specific folder for the R model and numbers between 4420-4441 and no idea where that info came from to make a specific sub folder; I'll keep digging but on the face of it I can't see anything really obvious externally.
I've checked the raised air filter box and that's not a defining feature, they belong to the E group and start with 4375 and end at 4408 (plus the last two, 4450/4451) and there's two types, a full width one and a slightly narrower one.
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richard carr
Western Thunderer
The other thing I did at the weekend was to narrow one of the bogies of the C30-7 and convert it to P48 in the process.
This takes quite a while, about 5 hours, as you need to machine about 1.7mm off the end of each axle, machine the wheels to P48 standards and put them all back together again.
I managed to get 1 truck done in those 5 hours, although I'm sure the second one won't take as long.
Here you can see the results, I'm going to take a little bit more off the axle ends when I do the next truck.
The trickiest part is getting the wheels back on the axles without any wheel wobble. So quite a bit of the time was spent making the parts to help put the wheels back on.
So here you can see the shape of the axle ends, the spigot will be the same size after machining for P48 so that it fits inside the black plastic axlebox on the side frames
To hold the wheels in the vice I have 2 bits of cast iron, 2 holes are drilled in the centre on the lathe, the first is for the spigot to fit in, then one for the axle end to fit in. One of these holes shouldn't be too deep as it needs to limit how far the axle protrudes through the wheel and we want an equal amount on each side. The insulated wheel uses this one as it will press on to the axle easier than the all metal one.
The face of each piece is then bored to a depth of 0.25mm and just wide enough to accept the wheel so it gets nicely centred.
So here are all the parts in the vice ready to push the wheels back on. The parallels are essential to get the axle level in the vice, once you have started to press the wheels on, you can remove them and place your gauge in there instead and then finish pressing them on.
This takes quite a while, about 5 hours, as you need to machine about 1.7mm off the end of each axle, machine the wheels to P48 standards and put them all back together again.
I managed to get 1 truck done in those 5 hours, although I'm sure the second one won't take as long.
Here you can see the results, I'm going to take a little bit more off the axle ends when I do the next truck.
The trickiest part is getting the wheels back on the axles without any wheel wobble. So quite a bit of the time was spent making the parts to help put the wheels back on.
So here you can see the shape of the axle ends, the spigot will be the same size after machining for P48 so that it fits inside the black plastic axlebox on the side frames
To hold the wheels in the vice I have 2 bits of cast iron, 2 holes are drilled in the centre on the lathe, the first is for the spigot to fit in, then one for the axle end to fit in. One of these holes shouldn't be too deep as it needs to limit how far the axle protrudes through the wheel and we want an equal amount on each side. The insulated wheel uses this one as it will press on to the axle easier than the all metal one.
The face of each piece is then bored to a depth of 0.25mm and just wide enough to accept the wheel so it gets nicely centred.
So here are all the parts in the vice ready to push the wheels back on. The parallels are essential to get the axle level in the vice, once you have started to press the wheels on, you can remove them and place your gauge in there instead and then finish pressing them on.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Mick
According to the Stapac book, the E comes from the fact the refurbed locos were leased from the Southern Pacific Equipment Company, I suspect the Rs were leased back from some one else.
I choose the number 4439 as it doesn't have the air filter box and hence it looks pretty much correct once the pilot has gone and it has a plow.
Richard
According to the Stapac book, the E comes from the fact the refurbed locos were leased from the Southern Pacific Equipment Company, I suspect the Rs were leased back from some one else.
I choose the number 4439 as it doesn't have the air filter box and hence it looks pretty much correct once the pilot has gone and it has a plow.
Richard
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Richard,
Yes I looked in there and again found no distinction between the two so went digging some more today and found my original source (actually in my SP saved documents and thus a link back to the web) for why I separated the R's.
In a nut shell SP never really officially classified a rebuild as an E, that seems to have come from the enthusiast fraternity; Don Stack details it much better here SP Rebuild Programs which is a good read on the SP rebuild program.
SP basically used the loose phrase E for 'electrical' rebuild and that was the orginal conotation for the rebuild (R8) program which ran from 1970-76.
However the program changed in 1977-80 to become the GRIP program and SP used the phrase R to designate that program. Thus the engines I have grouped in my R folder are the last 22 machines (4420-4441) to be rebuilt and fell under the GRIP program.
Don Bain also wrote a good article on the Sacremento rebuild program and that's also a good read https://utahrails.net/pdf/SP-Grip-Program_CTC-Board_Oct-1985.pdf.
In a nut shell, there's no difference between E and R, SP didn't apply E or R to their documention per se, they're all rebuilds. Instead SP used a more complex classification on official paperwork and on the locomotive it's self (EF.......etc stenciled under the cab window usually) scoll down the Don Strack page for a comprehensive break down and note the last value and see E and R for the R8 and GRIP programs which is probably where the enthusiast fraternity got the idea from.
Going a bit further, Don Strack has kindly individualised all the E and R models by road #, by year and by build order, this is the by road # list SP R8 and GRIP, By Model. The links are toward the bottom of his page listed above.
Yes I looked in there and again found no distinction between the two so went digging some more today and found my original source (actually in my SP saved documents and thus a link back to the web) for why I separated the R's.
In a nut shell SP never really officially classified a rebuild as an E, that seems to have come from the enthusiast fraternity; Don Stack details it much better here SP Rebuild Programs which is a good read on the SP rebuild program.
SP basically used the loose phrase E for 'electrical' rebuild and that was the orginal conotation for the rebuild (R8) program which ran from 1970-76.
However the program changed in 1977-80 to become the GRIP program and SP used the phrase R to designate that program. Thus the engines I have grouped in my R folder are the last 22 machines (4420-4441) to be rebuilt and fell under the GRIP program.
Don Bain also wrote a good article on the Sacremento rebuild program and that's also a good read https://utahrails.net/pdf/SP-Grip-Program_CTC-Board_Oct-1985.pdf.
In a nut shell, there's no difference between E and R, SP didn't apply E or R to their documention per se, they're all rebuilds. Instead SP used a more complex classification on official paperwork and on the locomotive it's self (EF.......etc stenciled under the cab window usually) scoll down the Don Strack page for a comprehensive break down and note the last value and see E and R for the R8 and GRIP programs which is probably where the enthusiast fraternity got the idea from.
Going a bit further, Don Strack has kindly individualised all the E and R models by road #, by year and by build order, this is the by road # list SP R8 and GRIP, By Model. The links are toward the bottom of his page listed above.
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richard carr
Western Thunderer
This came up on US Ebay and finished on the Saturday of the Chicago meet.
It was a relative bargain, but it doesn't run, it looks like the pickups are broken, but thats an easy fix and one window shade has broken off but it is in th ebox.
At some point it will get the full P48 treatment.
Richard
It was a relative bargain, but it doesn't run, it looks like the pickups are broken, but thats an easy fix and one window shade has broken off but it is in th ebox.
At some point it will get the full P48 treatment.
Richard
richard carr
Western Thunderer
So the main thing I have been doing recently is progressing the C30-7, by painting it. I also had to convert the second truck to P48.
This is what it is supposed to look like
SO these are the trucks
This is the body
The footplate piece was a bit of a disaster with the first go at painting it.
There was no alternative to stripping it, I used some Nitromors but it took most of Saturday to do it, so I'm not sure it was the best choice.
It looks OK now.
The fuel tank
And now the tricky bit, how to get those white stripes on the nose !
So first I painted the nose white, and here it is masked off with 6mm wide tamiya masking tape which appears to be the right width for the stripes
I'm now debating whether I should trim off the masking on the sides or paint it as is remove all the masking and then re mask the strips area and finish it off.
This is what it is supposed to look like
SO these are the trucks
This is the body
The footplate piece was a bit of a disaster with the first go at painting it.
There was no alternative to stripping it, I used some Nitromors but it took most of Saturday to do it, so I'm not sure it was the best choice.
It looks OK now.
The fuel tank
And now the tricky bit, how to get those white stripes on the nose !
So first I painted the nose white, and here it is masked off with 6mm wide tamiya masking tape which appears to be the right width for the stripes
I'm now debating whether I should trim off the masking on the sides or paint it as is remove all the masking and then re mask the strips area and finish it off.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
If the model is metal then cellulose thinners is the best paint stripper by far, takes a few minutes, ten at most.
For plastic I usually used IPA 99.9% (but Heljan bodies need about a month soaking to get it moving without spending all day scrubbing) but recently I have heard unleaded petrol is really good and cheaper alternative, so I'll be trying that this week at some point hopefully.
Masking, I'd trim the tape you have now as best you can and then you only need spray green once and get a better overall finish.
For plastic I usually used IPA 99.9% (but Heljan bodies need about a month soaking to get it moving without spending all day scrubbing) but recently I have heard unleaded petrol is really good and cheaper alternative, so I'll be trying that this week at some point hopefully.
Masking, I'd trim the tape you have now as best you can and then you only need spray green once and get a better overall finish.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Thanks Mick
I'm going to order some more celly thinners, and yes I have trimmed the tape and painted it green. It looks like it will need 2 coats of green, the first is just drying now.
Richard
I'm going to order some more celly thinners, and yes I have trimmed the tape and painted it green. It looks like it will need 2 coats of green, the first is just drying now.
Richard
richard carr
Western Thunderer
Some more progress the nose of the C30-7 is painted it just needs a bit of tidying up once the paint has fully hardened.
I have also been doing some more work on the Sunset SD9s. I've been trying to renumber one of them as they are intended to be SD9Es the refurbished ones, with the refurb caried out between 1976 and 1980 and all renumbered in the 4XXX series. As I now have two 3902s one of those had to change. It proved a lot more difficult than I would have liked, on another US forum it was suggested that Solvaset (Walters decal setting agent) and an eraser would quickly remove them, not a chance, it did eventually remove the cabside numbers but had no effect on the rest.
I've tried scraping this off with a knife blade but that wasn't going too well so then I attacked it with some 1500 grit wet and dry. I have to do this on them all as by the 70s they didn't have a front number they had the lets SP in a large font instead
4439 has got a desirable number, but needs to lose its front one, it looks ok after the 1500 grit wet and dry.
now with the SP lettering, it does make quite a difference to the look, this is going to be 4359, you can see that it has lost it's pilot steps but it retains the rest of the lower pilot, one of the few that did and did not have a plow.
Here it is for real, and thanks to Jack Kulphoff for taking it a long time ago. This one even has the correct shaped emergency stop light at the top.
I just need to do the number boards now.
I have also been doing some more work on the Sunset SD9s. I've been trying to renumber one of them as they are intended to be SD9Es the refurbished ones, with the refurb caried out between 1976 and 1980 and all renumbered in the 4XXX series. As I now have two 3902s one of those had to change. It proved a lot more difficult than I would have liked, on another US forum it was suggested that Solvaset (Walters decal setting agent) and an eraser would quickly remove them, not a chance, it did eventually remove the cabside numbers but had no effect on the rest.
I've tried scraping this off with a knife blade but that wasn't going too well so then I attacked it with some 1500 grit wet and dry. I have to do this on them all as by the 70s they didn't have a front number they had the lets SP in a large font instead
4439 has got a desirable number, but needs to lose its front one, it looks ok after the 1500 grit wet and dry.
now with the SP lettering, it does make quite a difference to the look, this is going to be 4359, you can see that it has lost it's pilot steps but it retains the rest of the lower pilot, one of the few that did and did not have a plow.
Here it is for real, and thanks to Jack Kulphoff for taking it a long time ago. This one even has the correct shaped emergency stop light at the top.
I just need to do the number boards now.